Here’s a bit more about why I am so anti-anti-depressants and have strong leanings toward being anti-psychiatry. Although ultimately I believe I am pro-me.This blog splurges up some more detail about my relationship with Effexor and the so called ‘caring’ services.
Earlier posts can be found here:
Entry into the mental health system – how I came to a point where I needed help from the mental health system and why I first started to take anti-depressants
Induction into mental health system – My first experience of help from the mental health system and how my condition deteriorated as I continued to take anti-depressants.
Sabbatical and re-entry into the mental health system – My time away from psychiatry and the things that I tried to improve my quality of life.
So, I began the withdrawal from Effexor, by making 5% cuts in total each week, this equates to about a 4mg a week from the total of 75mg. Therefore not huge drops – my plan was that I didn’t want to experience any withdrawals at all. I wanted Effexor to fade gradually out of my life.
To begin with my plan worked marvellously. I took a couple of breathers here and there, extending the waiting time between dose reduction. At the beginning of January I noticed that I was needing less sleep and that I didn’t feel so groggy, so punch drink, when I woke up. I marvelled at the fact that it seemed I needed to sleep so much due to the effexor – it wasnt’ ‘normal’ and my body didn’t need amphetamine, as a doctor had implied previously.
I decided to inrease the rate at which I dropped the doseage to 20% of original dose (roughly 11mg). I guess I was becoming impatient. However, it is only with hindsight that I can see that I was becoming complacent and that is very dangerous when withdrawing from antidepressants or any other psychiatric ‘medication’.
However, I continued to feel no troublesome withdrawal symptoms and there was nothing to suggest that I wouldn’t complete a successful withdrawal. But it didn’t work out that way.
Looking back, the first tangible sign that things were amiss was that on the Sunday I started to feel like I had the flu – bunged up, chesty and achy. I called in sick from work and there was no reason for me not to think that it was the flu – it was a chilly February. The next day I had diahorrea. Great – I thought, but again no reason to be suspicious. I was also feeling a bit scatty, but I was poorly so it was not surprising.
The next day Beener came up to see me and how I was feeling. I was very tearful and freaked out when she arrived. I told her that I’d been acting a bit weird/out of sorts. Beener is very used to me getting anxious and needing a bit of reassurance that everything is ok in the world. She made me a coffee and we had a chat. I told her that I kept feeling a strange sorta feeling that I have to look at certain objects or certain colours and that I felt weird. I guess at that point I had no vocabulary to accurately describe what was going on in my head. I tried to jolly myself along and declared that I reckened that if I burnt that blue cardigan it would make be feel better. She giggled and said ‘well go on then lets go in the garden and burn it’. So we did and then decided to go for a walk. I felt distracted the whole time and my brain continued to chuck out bizarre thoughts and beliefs. I asked Beener ‘do you think I’ve got schizophrenia’. She laughed and tried to reassure me – she was vey used to me deciding on a whim that I had a particular illness and it was a running joke that we had – we giggled – how ridiculous!
Beener dropped me home and I felt relieved to be on my own again, so I could try and figure out what was going on.
At this point I was only taking about 8mg of Effexor, a substantially smaller dose than Wyeth (the manufacturers/pushers of Effexor) or most Psychatrists would advise when withdrawing. About 2 days after I started to go into withdrawal, I remember searching in my cupboard for the Effexor and not being able to find them anywhere. I flitted around my house looking for them – confused as to where they were. Half and hour later I made the decision to just stop taking them – it was only a small drop after all and I really couldn’t face the thought of emergency doctor’s appointment or talking to disgruntled receptionists. I thought – right well I know I’m gonna feel lousy for a couple of weeks – I knew all about the so called brain shivers and dizziness – but that’s fine, I can handle it and then Effexor and me will be over. Big mistake.
Although I believe that I was already experiencing withdrawals, my fate was sealed when I decided to totally deprive my brain and body of this substance. My body simply could not handle it, and I went into meltdown.
Again, I want to emphasise, that it is only with hindsight that I can clearly pick out and see the threads and how things were escalating. Perhaps, some will say ‘ what a silly billy – its obvious you should have gone to the doctor’. But this all happened very quickly – over 3-4 days and who believes that they are going to go completely insane due to a bit of flu and feeling out of sorts! Also remember I was having a smooth withdrawal and was on a very small dose. I don’t believe that this all happened to me because I was reckless or lacking in self awareness. If I’d continued like this for a few more days I would have gone to the GP. But I didn’t have time because things escalated too quickly. Beener and I have discussed things at great length and have both concluded that we couldn’t have done anything different given what we knew at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing – etc etc
The first night I was proper manic, involved racing thoughts and an unnerving, insiduous concern about the welfare of my friends and family. I couldn’t sleep and sat up click click clicking on the internet. I do remember thinking this is weird I’m ill with the flu, and its in the very early hours of the morning – why aren’t I tired? But I guess I kinda liked the fact that I was sleeping less and less. Then I couldn’t keep up with all the chatter in my brain and I became confused, disorientated and oblivious to anything but trying to keep up with it all. Then suddenly a piercingly clear and brilliant thought or inspiration would pearce me and I felt compelled to carry out what I believed at the time to be sorta metaphysical rituals. Eating gravy bone dog biscuits, clearing my house of objects giving off the wrong ‘vibes’ and gardeners will be pleased to hear that there was quite a bit of rearranging of house plants to tap into mother earth. Whizzing and whurring and whipping around my house, responding to snip-bits of thoughts and ideas and memories. I was in too deep, the voice of reason and logic was no where to be found and ‘I’ disappeared. I’d lost control. It was as if I was still there, kinda observing myself, a part of me aware that I was doing some real crazy stuff, but unable or unwilling to intervene. Dream-like. ‘They’ call it dissociation.
I slept for two hours and then woke up in the middle of dream-land. Keener had left the building. I could sit for days, weeks, months trying to write down all the stuff that went through my head that day and all the strange things that I felt compelled to do. But no amount of re-writing or editing could make it comprehensible. Its all still in my head and if I follow one memory, just one of the delusions, prise it out of the jumbled mess – I can understand why my brain jucked that out and why I thought that. Interesting to me now, most definitely something I shouldn’t dwell on, but most importantly I know it was only real to me.
I do want to say that I had very violent thoughts and I am so grateful that my usual reaction – to isolate myself prevailed and I didn’t hurt or kill anyone. People on antidepressants and in withdrawal can become terrifyingly violent and lacking in conscience or remorse. Yeah fine – not all – but too many for this issue not to be looked into.
It culminated in me lying on my sofa, believing that I was dead and that two angels were coming to get me. I was terrified. I was so cold – my body was going from one minute feeling full of life and goodness tingling all over, to being racked in pain. I lay there – I was stuck -time had stopped, everyone had gone, I was alone and had run out of ideas.
Then another one of me mates turns up and he got a big shock. I leapt up off the sofa and babbled on to him, turning lights on and off as a code to release us from hell. At first he pleaded with me to stop and I pleaded with him to trust me and just copy what I was doing. He managed to get away from me and went to phone NHS direct. I kinda have a black out then, a defence mechanism perhaps – other things are blocked out too, nestled deep in the brain somewhere no doubt. However, it appears that I ripped all my clothes off and ran into the street, apparently (as the police inform me later) I popped down the high street for some reason and then burst into a community hall on my street. Then I guess I sorta woke up again to find myself surrounded my frightened middle aged women who were having some sort of meeting, which I had rather rudely interrupted. I was hollering and wailing and just ran out of the hall, my friend found me. There was a bit of a tussle as one of the women was trying to help me and had hold of one arm and my mate was trying to say I know her and I’m getting her home.
An ambulance and two police vehicles arrived and I continued to run around whooping and wailing, throwing things – at which point the ambulance left. It took a while to get it into my head that this was really happening and that the police were real – I said some pretty cheeky things to them about doughnuts.
Anyways I went off to the police station and sat in the cell stunned. Half of my brain in la-la land and at the very same time the other half – thinking oh flip what the hell is going on! Kinda like two people in one.
I saw the police doctor bloke, he blathered on about did I take crack, heroin etc etc. He said well you seem fine – you can go home. I protested that things were obviously not right, but I guess I sounded too logical. A bit annoying because of the evidence of running about naked in February – at that point I wanted help…
The police dropped me and my mate home. He stayed over, to keep me safe. Unfortunately he wasn’t safe. I wouldn’t and couldn’t settle for ages. I then forget what happened, but my friend remembers being woken up by being punched in the face by me as I proclaimed ‘I win’. I am thankful that I don’t remember this. I was becoming increasingly paranoid and violent and physically ill and delusional and broken…
Something had to give… enter the at best, bumbling, and at worst, callous, mental health system. Enter the drugs. Enter the locked doors.
Keener




I was taking anti depressants when I attempted suicide the last time. I took about thirty flexeril and about thirty anafranil as well as a half bottle of bourbon. I was stunned when I woke up 14hrs later. I am amazed that anecdotal evidence is accepted in the psychiatric community yet not accepted anywhere else in medicine.
Paxil gave me brain jolts which felt like a cattle prod to the brain. Celexa made me puke everyday. And none of these side effects were of any concern to the psychiatrist. They were a concern to me.
I took myself off of all medication and I turn my back to people who say try this or that, ultimately we are on our own, and honestly I feel safer that way.
Hey Diane
I think you are right ultimately we are on our own. That can be both a scary and wonderfully liberating realisation.
There are so many ’solutions’ on offer, but all we have are choices and decisions to make. Like I said, I am pro-me, and all I can say is this is what happened to me, this is why I think it happened and this is how I’ve reacted/made my choices. I have banged my head against a brick-wall trying to convince people of the ‘truth’, but the only truth is your own. Which leads me to my ultimate point: I always choose these days to trust and believe in myself – the end.
Best wishes Keener
“enter the at best, bumbling, and at worst, callous, mental health system”
I don’t want to even begin to suggest that the deal you’ve got from the health service has been good, but you can see surely that after your psychotic episode the ‘locked doors’ were necessary at least initially? You’ve described how you felt you were violent and possibly dangerous to your friend.
I would plead with you not to lose faith completely in the health service. You said you have had at least one good psychiatrists. Like any branch of medicine, psychiatry has its bad apples – but I’d wager you’d like surgeons even less, as a rule! Psychiatrists are faced with a whole load of problems that some paint as being deliberate faults of psychiatry, such as the issue of psychiatric diagnoses being based on written descriptions rather than observable pathologies. The antipsychiatry movement raise many good points about problems with psychiatry, but they portray psychiatrists as willingly colluding in perpetuating the problems, whereas in fact – in the UK certainly – any good psychiatrist is aware of the problems and wants to overcome them as much as the antipsychiatry movement.
I’m not a psychiatrist but I might be in ten years, so I can’t pretend to be a neutral bystander. But I read many stories like yours and they have a great deal to teach psychiatrists and other mental health workers, yet sometimes they are misguided about the intentions and perspective of mental health services, and for things to improve there needs to be a culture of listening from both ’sides’.
Hi Jason
Thank you very much for taking the time to write your perspective. I welcome comments from all…
mmmm, its taken me a short while to decide how to respond to you. mmmm
Ok, firstly I guess I wanna clear up some of the asssumptions that you have made about where I am coming from.
I am not sure why you thought I am arguing against me being sectioned. I wasn’t. I agree that I shouldn’t have been left to kill someone or be killed.
I am not against psychiatrist as a group en masse lol! Like you say I liked the first bloke I saw. I now have a workable relationship with my psychiatrist. However, this was after 4 months of myself, family and friends telling various mental health professionals that my problems were due to Effexor withdrawal. He eventually apologised and admitted they had made a mistake. He got 10 points for that – it was genuine, he was listening and still does. But I had to fight and fight hard for it – thats where the anti-psychiatry leanings come in that you jumped on. Anyways, hold your horses I ain’t finished my story yet there was much more fun and games to come..
I worked as a manager of a mental health service (non-statutory) when I went crazy. I know a fair bit about all that jazz. I think a big problem is the lack of adequate services, particularly preventative (assertive outreach teams are being cut) and places for people to stay who are in crisis. Incidentally there are alternatives to sterile hospital environments, such as crisis houses which provide a more nurturing ‘vibe’. Come on really a bit more effort from staff to provide a stimulating environment wouldn’t go amiss. The other problem is that there are many people working in the mental health business that shouldn’t be, they lack the basic skills and values of empathy and compassion.
You picked up on my comment “enter the at best, bumbling, and at worst, callous, mental health system” – I thought that when I worked in the mental health system (lol). As did many of my ex-collegues – some survivors/anti-psychiatrists/nutters, some not. As you perhaps allude to, this is the motivation for why many people stay in what is often an unbearably stressful job.
At the risk of sounding cheeky Jase, I thought I may as well as tell you what I really think about your response, my analysis of you so to speak …
I think you will make an excellent psychiatrist. You have a prounounced ability to make wild assumptions about people and to pick out sentences/events in order to conform to your existing world view. Happy studying and happy diagnosing…
Please feel to have a pop back…
Popped in to see how the allotment is going with the recent bad weather, sorry to hear you’ve been having problems health/medication wise. I know so little about what you are going through so will not comment on it except that I hope the next week is a better one.
Ruth
P.P. Great soil testing idea!
Hi Ruth,
Thanks for stopping by. I havent had chance to get up the allotment since it snowed on Thursday. Im off out now to go and collect some manure and wood chippings for the paths.
Its raining here and miserable. What a day to be shoveling sh**! Our greenhouse needs cleaning so there’s a job I can get on with in the rain.
I best be off now, a pile of manure awaits me……
Regards beener.
I can’t really fault anything you say in your reply to me except the bit about me actually! I’m really not like that, so I’m sorry if that’s how it comes across to you – re-reading it critically I’m still fairly happy that it shouldn’t though.
If there’s one thing that my generation of medical students are being taught it’s to question what we do, what others do and what has always been done. I have a previous life as an Oxford historian so the notion of not taking things at face value, of questioning assumptions and of not using isolated pieces of evidence out of context to support a case has been drummed into me for at least 10 years. Nowhere is a questioning mindset more important than something like psychiatry, but an ability to admit mistakes, apologise and learn from them is something all doctors should have (alas that isn’t and perhaps never will be the case).
I guess if I hadn’t just deleted my blog I could refer you to my ramblings there to make the case for my being rather different from your tongue-in-cheek (I hope
) analysis! But anyway, the point I was trying to make and would stand by is that there needs to be give and take on both sides. Psychiatry is far from perfect, but psychiatrists in general – in my experience so far certainly – are usually reflective about their rights and wrongs, and by no means malign or dogmatic in their intentions, and it will be hard for future psychiatrists like perhaps myself to make headway in improving our relationship with patients if patients start to suspect us all of the faults you ascribe to me.
Hi Jason
Thanks for writing back and I’m glad you took my last paragraph as tongue in cheek – as that was how it was intended lol! You may have noted a lot of what I write has that slant…
Anyways I have no beef with you, so to speak, you seem like a nice fellow and you are open to discussion. We will certainly have to agree to disagree on whether the majority of psychiatrists are naughty or nice. My experience (professionally and personally) is that they are mostly rubbish, and that there are a hardcore group who are very arrogant bleeps. We have different experiences in life – I could quote user surveys about who service users are most likely to name as the person they want to talk to in when in crisis. But like I say, I genuinely cherish the right to freedom of mind and speech, as long as you-re not hurting no-one – each to their own.
The only thing I feel very strongly about in all my opinions/ conclusions is that I am getting off meds and I hope never to see a psychiatrist again. I tell my GP and Psych that and they say they don’t blame me and genuinely wish me the best. So my story does have a happy ending.
It’s a shame you deleted your blog, I woulda been interested to look.
Jason, I am a little confused about what you are stating.
1) where are the sides, I don’t really see a polarized playing fields. There is such a wide variety of people, views and organizations with different agendas. It is a small minority of service users/mentalists who would describe/align themself with the ‘anti-psychiatry’ thing. Also it is widely accepted that most ‘user involvement’ initiatives and the like, only attract a minority of users of a service. There really aren’t that many dissidents out of the total – unfortunately in my opinion. I fondly remember one psychiatrist when I was an in-patient saying to me half joking, half serious ‘don’t cause a revolt’. I kept telling other patients what their rights were and what they were entitled to. A good example of the interplay between rubbish services and crap staff creating what feels and sometimes actually physically is a ‘bumbling or callous’ system. Systemic lack of funding/adequate provision alongside many (again not all there was some right good uns too, but a minority) simply not following guidelines and procedures. Many patients have very low standards of what to expect whilst on a ward, some through lack of knowledge about their rights, some believing ‘resistance is futile’ and others knowing making less fuss means getting out quicker. Anyways, I digress and I’m avoiding rants.. But this leads me onto my second point of confusion…
2) Whom are you referring to when you say the other side needs to listen and what is it that they need to listen to and what is it that they are not listening to.
Maybe if you could provide me with some concrete examples, this would help me to see where you’re coming from. I truly would like to be persuaded to be more optimistic about mental health services. And what with you being an Oxford boy – I’m sure you enjoy a good debate anyway!
I would also love to hear from anyone who has had a positive experience of life on a mental health ward (it don’t count if you spent squillions going to the priory). Food, cleanliness, feeling safe, thorough assessments of needs, stimulating activities etc etc – what you’re supposed to get basically. I’d love to hear a different perspective.
Keener
PS do you like our allotment Jason?
Oh, what a hoot
Well, apart from the punching of your friend.
Those drugs will do that sort of stuff to you as you come off them, though the eating of dog biscuits and the running around naked are something I would draw line at. The problem is information overload, and the uncanny feeling of being involved in something that you are not really, the mind just tries to solve the dilemma. There is no law about flicking a light switch on and off, and there is no law about trying to get in touch with mother earth by the placement of plants. There is a law against streaking, though not often enforced.
Once they have you hooked on drugs, they can get you to keep taking them because the withdrawal can create the behaviour patterns for a mental diagnosis.
The other thing people are not really aware of, is that the detox itself will make you experience the drugs again. What happens is the healthy living roots out the drugs that are in your body and tries to expel them as poison, this moves the drugs to a position in the body that they can be easily be reabsorbed again. Your body builds a tolerance to the drugs, as you get off the drugs the brain rewires, it heals itself, but your tolerance level is dropping to the drug. Then as you feel better you up the detox, this is the point you get hit by the drugs again. Often people who have colonic irrigation will get this effect if they have been using recreational drugs.
So, you tend to expel some of the residual drugs but a percentage will be reabsorbed. It is confusing not to know this, as you think you will start to feel calmer, you are doing all the right things, but the opposite occurs.
I have never met anyone who has a good word to say about the psych wards and actually experienced them as an unpaid lab rat.
It is interesting to note that you are not against yourself being sectioned, which is odd for a pro-me stance, but if you are of the idea that you are capable of murder then go to the ward voluntarily, immediately. Or hand yourself into the police for planning to commit murder they may go lenient on you as you are the snitch
I personally think all powers of detainment and forced medication should be removed from the psychiatric profession, if you plan murder then you do the time for the crime, if you wish to argue that is was due to withdrawal from a prescribed drug fine, but they do put warning labels on the bottles.
Your ideas that you had to do something and your mind entering a defensive state could be directly related to your previous encounters with the psychiatric profession, you may have been unwilling to accept that those who are meant to help are really the ones to blame, a sort of manic stockholm syndrome
thanks for taking the time to leave your thoughts and I am glad my antics entertained you – lol!
I am only not cross about being sectioned because my family and friends were the instigators of my loss of freedom – and I’m not and don’t want to be angry with them. I am a little peeved that the medical docs didn’t recognise withdrawal syndrome though – don’t they read the labels!!
Thanks for the info – withdrawal is a tricky beast indeed!
I guess my stance on compulsory detainment and forcing people to take the most rancid chemicals changes from day to day. Sometimes I think that before any of them prescribe/inject/prompt (often a euphanism for bully) someone to ingest that stuff, then they should take it themselves for a month first. Although I do accept that my manifesto would not receive wide ranging support…
Anyways, I have to say I broadly agree with you – the terrorisation of distressed people through the use of the powers of the mental health act, is a dubious practice indeed…
Best wishes
Hello
Great book. I just want to say what a fantastic thing you are doing! Good luck!
G’night
Mark Samuel, Nurse Sex Offender Convicted
On Sept 8,2005 RN:Mark Samuel was sentenced to five years in Jail with all but two years suspended,having been convicted in January 2004 of unlawful sexual contact with a 6 year-old girl . Mark Samuel counseled the girls mother. when the counseling ended , the three became friends attending family fuctions together. The violations occurred during sleepovers at the Nurses residence during the summer of 2003. Mark Samuel has been released from prison and is now at risk to the community of North Bay Ontario Mark Samuel emyployed 2007 for Assertive community treatment Team North Bay, ON
Northeast Mental Health Center
P.O. Box 3010 4700
Highway 11 N
North Bay, ON,CA